This whole debate works off of people thinking they've earned what they've achieved, which really isn't true.
Unfortunately, seems most people still forget that the whole social and economic paradigm we all live in only exists due to colonialism, the systematic genocide of non-white folks and patriarchal power structures. Discussing diversity is but a small way to acknowledge all of that and take steps towards a more egalitarian world.
Some of the white peoples are basically the only peoples on the globe that self-critical of themselves. Which is why, ironically, you should cherish and adore them.
think "maybe it's okay to allow people from different backgrounds to be on the show" then maybe it's a you issue
Obviously it's okay to have people with different backgrounds on the show.
But that's not what was written, that's not what the complaint of the original poster was. Is it?
It wasn't about different backgrounds, it was about the selection of the DF retro panel members.
it would be great to get more diversity on the shows like DF Direct, and newly announced DF retro which also has an all-white-male panel
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It's a complaint about immutable characteristics of DF and the DF panel, and their guests.
Moreover, it's a request to select potential team members and/or guests not on their different backgrounds, experience, opinions, and quality of conversation but instead by the colour of their skin.
I note that the OG poster hasn't returned to this thread, which further demonstrates my point that this was a classic "praise sandwich" troll.
@StooMonster if it's obviously okay why are you arguing against it so hard?
The original post was a request to see people from different backgrounds on the show and then a statement of fact - the DF panel is all white men from similar backgrounds. Here's what they wrote:
As long time DF youtube viewer I enjoy your content, and congrats on new website and independence. But it would be great to get more diversity on the shows like DF Direct, and newly announced DF retro which also has an all-white-male panel. Otherwise keep up the great work and all the best!
I'm from the same background but I don't find that fact or the request to be even close to as much of an issue as you seem to find it. It's not suggesting that Rich, John, Alex, Tom and Oliver are in anyway not capable, you seem to have applied that intpretation yourself...which is a bit weird. They even tell them to keep up the good work, the kind of thing you would say when you want to see people carrying on working with DF.
My background — details of my life, such as my family, upbringing, education, work experience, and social origins — is unique to me, although has a lot of commonality here in these forums I'm sure.
Going by you posts it looks like you just enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing and the sound of your own metaphorical voice.
So you edit what people post, then set up straw-men, criticise me without saying what for. All using coded language.
I came here to converse about 'Games and Tech' and in Digital Foundry and DF Retro I want to hear from interesting people who know what they're talking about, have interesting opinions, present well, etc. no matter who they are.
@SandyB if anything, this thread is very useful for putting the Ignore function to work. Some of the responses here are clear indicators that unfortunately DF also has as fans some of the worst "gamers" out there (think people who probably subscribe to stuff like asmongold, grummz, the lot).
I wouldn't push for the topic to be closed just because some people chose to derail it with bad faith arguments. Especially, I would hope that this remaining open means at some point someone from the DF team could have eyes on it and maybe even consider what kind of actions they could take in order to enrich their content further. Imagine, for instance, if they ever decide to make a DF Retro episode where it's a retrospective for localized consoles beyond just Japan/US/Europe (that could even start by tapping on some of the unusual ways games used to be adjusted for Germany, something the current team must have a lot of insight on).
The way I see it, you hire the best person for the job. That's pretty much it. It doesn't matter where they come from or what they look like.
The video game industry in the West has for whatever reason been dominated by white guys. That is changing over time, so who knows, perhaps the next hire Rich makes won't be a white guy. But I wouldn't bet on it.
Funny how it's never a problem when all the members are black or women.
Yes, because media in general is dominated by white-centric and male-centric views. If you set out to do something that would break from that norm, you don't really need to add to it by including perspectives that "cover" ground that's more than well treaded already. In fact, it would just make whatever it is closer to the norm that it is trying to break away from.
Having a vagina or brown skin changes videogame tech takes? lol
Unfortunately, seems most people still forget that the whole social and economic paradigm we all live in only exists due to colonialism, the systematic genocide of non-white folks and patriarchal power structures.
History is far too complex to make a blanket statement like that. For instance, years ago I did a deep dive into the subject of the trans-Atlantic slave trade for a project. My main takeaway was that it's simply impossible to point a finger at one particular group or ethnicity as responsible for the pain and suffering surrounding that subject. Literally no one involved has clean hands. Both the guilty and the victimized are spread across multiple cultures and religions. The manner in which the subject is commonly handled today is an extremely oversimplified version of history. Which is both unfortunate and understandable because it's not realistic to expect anyone to have the fuller picture available to them without a lot of dedicated time and effort. Similarly, Western European "success" isn't simply just a result of great acts of evil.
As long as it is meritocratic the I could not care less about diversity. I support DF as a Patreon because in my view the content is worth paying for, a meritocracy, other people are welcome to support whatever other tech analysts they want to, whether based on merit or any other random criteria they choose.
@NetshadeX I think it's pretty easy to point a finger at the colonial powers from Europe for what they did to literally every single territory they "discovered" and then proceeded to exploit. It's also extremely easy to see, to this day, the dire consequences this has had on basically everyone who is considered by white people as "non-white".
"I did the research for a project." "Nobody is without blood on their hands." "It's too complex for the layman." "Everyone I disagree with has an oversimplified opinion." "It's not their fault though, you can't actually expect anyone to understand history."
Saying so much without saying anything at all. My goodness.
I never implied it was too complex for the layman or that history is incomprehensible to people. I stated it's understandable that a lot of people don't spend the time and effort to do a deep dive without a reason to do so. If they did, they could absolutely understand it, it's not rocket science.
@NetshadeX I think it's pretty easy to point a finger at the colonial powers from Europe for what they did to literally every single territory they "discovered" and then proceeded to exploit.
Sorry, no. Let me give you an example of how complex this gets. I'll paint in broad strokes here: With the expansion of the Ottoman empire , the Turkish Barbarossa brothers overtook Algeria in the late 16th century. From the early 17th century all the way up to the early 19th century, Barbary pirates sailed from Algeria and absolutely terrorized Northern Europe raiding trade ships and coastal towns taking an estimated 1.000.000 people from their homes in coastal towns from Spain, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Britain and Denmark to sell at slave markets. This eventually ended with France invading Algeria to put an end to that once and for all. It actually gets even more complex when you consider these pirates were aided in their ship building by European ship builders. These slave traders also at some point turned their attention to Sub Saharan black people to sell because going up north became too dangerous. These black people were sold to clients in Mauritane and yes..European and US clients who were shipping these people to plantations in North America,
Taking all this into account. Can you tell me who the bad guys in this story are? Is it the Barbarossa brothers/ Ottomans for conquering Algeria? Is it the Barbary pirates? Is it the European ship builders? Is it France for invading Algeria? Is it the clients buying the slaves? Who?
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Topic: DF diversity?
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